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Old 05-04-2022, 06:05 PM   #1
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Eh, disagree. They’re not what they could be, but Ziggler was just NXT Champion. That’s more global exposure than AEW would get. In terms of being a quality team? They shit all over most, honestly. It’s just the matter of a renewed push, which may or may not come.
Ziggler's title reign cemented Bron Breakker as the top face of the NXT brand.

Their title rematch on RAW after Mania had more viewership than Dynamite and Rampage can ever dream of.
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Old 05-04-2022, 05:34 PM   #2
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I think you’re judging it by different standards.

Noid is setting the bar at “best compared to” and Guycott is setting the bar at “best it could possibly be”.

I’m inclined to agree largely with Noid’s assessment that WWE tag division > than most right now, however, that’s the issue; it’s going great guns right now, but precedent suggests it won’t last. Which then becomes an issue with people committing to it. I suffer from this myself. Everything good in WWE I’m just waiting for them to misstep/fuck it up/scrap it entirely because that’s pretty much their modus operandi at this point. You don’t get the “benefit of the doubt” until you earn it, and WWE have a lot of making up to do in that department for a lot of people.
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Old 05-04-2022, 05:44 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by XL View Post
I think you’re judging it by different standards.

Noid is setting the bar at “best compared to” and Guycott is setting the bar at “best it could possibly be”.

I’m inclined to agree largely with Noid’s assessment that WWE tag division > than most right now, however, that’s the issue; it’s going great guns right now, but precedent suggests it won’t last. Which then becomes an issue with people committing to it. I suffer from this myself. Everything good in WWE I’m just waiting for them to misstep/fuck it up/scrap it entirely because that’s pretty much their modus operandi at this point. You don’t get the “benefit of the doubt” until you earn it, and WWE have a lot of making up to do in that department for a lot of people.
Oh, it could definitely be better. But what other tag team division can hold a candle to it? Things will get emphasized differently over time in wrestling. There will almost definitely be lulls in WWE’s tag division again. But that doesn’t necessarily come from a place of malice or an internet fan wrestling trope either.

WWE seem to hum at a level of adequacy that a lot of promotions haven’t even earned in the first place. It’s fair if you’ve decided you aren’t going to trust WWE anymore. But it’s sad because there isn’t really an alternative that can bat on their level.
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Old 05-04-2022, 07:21 PM   #4
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the thing with wwe tag teams is vince likes singles better, he said years ago better to pay 2 wrestlers to do a match then 4 wrestlers. that is going by cornett. with that thinking vince will never have a good tag div. so for wwe we are just stuck with new day an the uso's till they get to old.
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Old 05-04-2022, 09:44 PM   #5
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I think the WWE is realizing the potential of utilizing managers. Bobby Lashley and Roman Reigns both needed a manager to get over the hump. Managers will probably be used sparingly but wisely in the WWE.

It is also rare to have an effective manager. WWE does not need to go down the route of bringing in a bunch of managers who are average. Keep the manager role for select wrestlers who can easily be a superstar with a mouthpiece.
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Old 05-05-2022, 02:01 PM   #6
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Old 05-05-2022, 02:09 PM   #7
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More blood for the blood god
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Old 05-05-2022, 04:33 PM   #8
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Swerve was telling a story on his podcast about B-Fab's firing.

WWE uses a scheduling app for their talent's travel arrangements. All of Hit Row were set to travel to SmackDown and on the day of travel it disappeared off of B-Fab's schedule but still had it on the other 3 guys' schedule.

B-Fab called the office and couldn't get a hold of anybody, so Top Dolla called Johnny Ace to see what the deal was. Ace told him it was fine and that she just wasn't needed that week. The 3 guys flew in and found out mid-flight over Twitter that B-Fab got fired.

Then when they arrived at the building they got an ass chewing for calling Johnny Ace at all. "Mind your own business" etc. Even though the act was a quartet so it's not really that egregious that they called in to see if the travel shit was a mistake or not.
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Old 05-06-2022, 09:10 AM   #9
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lol what a company
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Old 05-06-2022, 10:47 AM   #10
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Between that and bringing up Shotzi without the writers even knowing she was in a tag team with ember, its starting to sound a lot like late wcw in terms of disorganization and just never knowing what the fuck is going on.
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Old 05-06-2022, 01:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Between that and bringing up Shotzi without the writers even knowing she was in a tag team with ember, its starting to sound a lot like late wcw in terms of disorganization and just never knowing what the fuck is going on.
Lol, they knew she was in a tag team. They weren’t that interested in Ember because they had used her before on many different levels and she has never been able to get over. They gave her the NXT Women’s Title in her hometown and it was lukewarm.
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Old 05-06-2022, 02:59 PM   #12
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According to a recent interview with Ember, no, at least one of the writers working with them was unaware of them being a tag team.
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Old 05-06-2022, 03:02 PM   #13
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And it doesn't really matter if they didn't see anything in ember moon, but rather how they regard nxt in general, and really don't seem to give a shit about it. I think that plays a large factor in why so many talents have struggled after their call up.
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Old 05-06-2022, 10:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
And it doesn't really matter if they didn't see anything in ember moon, but rather how they regard nxt in general, and really don't seem to give a shit about it. I think that plays a large factor in why so many talents have struggled after their call up.
Ill go on record and say Ember Moon's initial NXT run was top tier. Great look, great music, best finisher, and her big main roster call up if I remember correctly was teaming with babyface Nia Jax talking about how it is ok to be comfortable believing in yourself Be a Star bullshit. Then they proceeded to do nothing whatsoever with her for months.

That is not a good business model.
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Old 05-06-2022, 04:05 PM   #15
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This is the problem with taking disgruntled ex-talent at their word. There was a major disconnect between NXT and the main roster. Triple H was aiming an indy-style product aimed at a certain subsection of fans. That’s what they’re trying to rectify now.
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Old 05-06-2022, 05:40 PM   #16
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Well I mean it tracks considering how clueless they seem to be at times in regards to using nxt talent on the main roster.
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Old 05-06-2022, 07:00 PM   #17
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Well I mean it tracks considering how clueless they seem to be at times in regards to using nxt talent on the main roster.
I’ll play. Like who?
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Old 05-06-2022, 07:56 PM   #18
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Oh boy…
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Old 05-07-2022, 01:39 AM   #19
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Ember Moon isn’t very good.

It’s trendy to blame WWE when the talent doesn’t get over. In most cases NXT talent have flopped on the main roster, there wasn’t much there to begin with. A lot of them have had attitude problems or downright suck too. AEW has exposed how WWE made a lot of guys look way better than they had any business looking.
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Old 05-08-2022, 06:44 PM   #20
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Ember Moon isn’t very good.

It’s trendy to blame WWE when the talent doesn’t get over. In most cases NXT talent have flopped on the main roster, there wasn’t much there to begin with. A lot of them have had attitude problems or downright suck too. AEW has exposed how WWE made a lot of guys look way better than they had any business looking.
Do you even realize, or care, that doubling down on a stance that has been proven false over and over again isn't just going to make it true if you repeat it into your echo chamber enough?

OK, Google: Define "insanity".
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:09 PM   #21
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Do you even realize, or care, that doubling down on a stance that has been proven false over and over again isn't just going to make it true if you repeat it into your echo chamber enough?

OK, Google: Define "insanity".
The irony of this is that you’re coming down hard on a stance that I believe has been disproven.

Of all the talent that has been released since 2019 — we’ve got about 3 years now — who has actually been better off for it? It’s a VERY short list.
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:14 PM   #22
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Ember Moon was boring as shit in NXT. That four-way when she won the belt against Peyton Royce and whoever else the fuck was around had zero hype. Does anyone really disagree with this.

Can someone link me to an absolutely amazing Ember Moon match, promo or moment, let alone direct me to an actual run where she sustained those things? Come on.

It’s not always WWE’s fault when talent doesn’t pan out.
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:39 PM   #23
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Except with Doug Basham, that was 100% WWE's fault
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:45 PM   #24
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I liked Ember Moon when she was in NXT, and it was "cool" the angle they were going with where Asuka had to "cheat"/"take shortcuts" to beat her... like the one person the unbeatable Asuka had to use underhanded tactics against....

But then Asuka got injured and had to vacate the title and Ember never got her moment of victory and won the title instead in a match that, yeah, didn't have any hype behind it.

Ideal booking would have had Asuka continue undefeated on the main roster and then Ember debut as the only one who pushed Asuka to her limits and made her cheat to win... then finally getting her moment defeating her.
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Old 05-09-2022, 01:37 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
I liked Ember Moon when she was in NXT, and it was "cool" the angle they were going with where Asuka had to "cheat"/"take shortcuts" to beat her... like the one person the unbeatable Asuka had to use underhanded tactics against....

But then Asuka got injured and had to vacate the title and Ember never got her moment of victory and won the title instead in a match that, yeah, didn't have any hype behind it.

Ideal booking would have had Asuka continue undefeated on the main roster and then Ember debut as the only one who pushed Asuka to her limits and made her cheat to win... then finally getting her moment defeating her.
Sucks that two big Asuka matches got canned for auxillary circumstances. That build to pass the torch to Ember, and also, Asuka was supposed to cash in MITB on Becky, but Becky was with child.
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Old 05-09-2022, 01:33 AM   #26
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I think its really weird to say that anyone and everyone who didn't work out ALL just so happened to be shit; that nobody had any value whatsoever and that's why they're gone...

Oh, and also it doesn't matter how fucked up they may have been treated in any step of the endeavour, from hiring to firing, it is all the fault of the wrestler for being subpar. Even being way more generous than reasonably neccessary, that smashes Occam's Razor to a very blunt edge.

It also doesn't check out when there are still shitty wrestlers who were or have been employed for years.

"Ember Moon isnt' that good", but to this same company, Kelly Kelly is considered a "legend" and - even as of the last surprise appearance she made - still runs ropes like a drunken Clydesdale. The most basic of basics, and she can't do it. The Bellas are HOF material, but Athena somehow sucks because they cut her. And the office not watching their own product and not realizing she was in a tag team is somehow bad on her because reasons.
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Old 05-09-2022, 08:34 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
I think its really weird to say that anyone and everyone who didn't work out ALL just so happened to be shit; that nobody had any value whatsoever and that's why they're gone...

Oh, and also it doesn't matter how fucked up they may have been treated in any step of the endeavour, from hiring to firing, it is all the fault of the wrestler for being subpar. Even being way more generous than reasonably neccessary, that smashes Occam's Razor to a very blunt edge.

It also doesn't check out when there are still shitty wrestlers who were or have been employed for years.

"Ember Moon isnt' that good", but to this same company, Kelly Kelly is considered a "legend" and - even as of the last surprise appearance she made - still runs ropes like a drunken Clydesdale. The most basic of basics, and she can't do it. The Bellas are HOF material, but Athena somehow sucks because they cut her. And the office not watching their own product and not realizing she was in a tag team is somehow bad on her because reasons.
Lol, I didn’t say all. Why bold it like that was the point?

Kelly Kelly got over at a point in time. She can’t do flipping stunners off the top as crisply as Ember Moon, but that’s way besides the point. The Bellas are valuable TV commodities for them. Ember Moon is a worker ant.

They knew she was in a tag team, lol. They wanted Shotzi and not Ember. Not caring that someone is in a tag team and not knowing are two different things.
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Old 05-11-2022, 12:37 AM   #28
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Lol, I didn’t say all. Why bold it like that was the point?
Because it was the point of that particular post. You do that a lot. People get fired from WWE, and you're quick to defend the company's decision on a firing no matter how warranted the decison may or may not have been.

It is one of those things where either you don't realize the frequency with which you do it even when someone points it out, or you do realize it and you're just fucking with people or being argumentative for argument's sake. Either way, it's there. So much so that even if/when you decide to break ranks with WWE, it's so few and far between it goes unnoticed... doomed to drown in a sea of accusing folks of being against WWE for the fun of it, or somehow the profit of another fed - AEW in particular.

Being the "biggest" or "most popular" company doesn't automatically make them the infallable hero. They've minimized, buried, and let go of folks who don't suck, and kept, re-hired, and pushed people who are absolute ass.
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Old 05-11-2022, 02:34 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
Because it was the point of that particular post. You do that a lot. People get fired from WWE, and you're quick to defend the company's decision on a firing no matter how warranted the decison may or may not have been.

It is one of those things where either you don't realize the frequency with which you do it even when someone points it out, or you do realize it and you're just fucking with people or being argumentative for argument's sake. Either way, it's there. So much so that even if/when you decide to break ranks with WWE, it's so few and far between it goes unnoticed... doomed to drown in a sea of accusing folks of being against WWE for the fun of it, or somehow the profit of another fed - AEW in particular.

Being the "biggest" or "most popular" company doesn't automatically make them the infallable hero. They've minimized, buried, and let go of folks who don't suck, and kept, re-hired, and pushed people who are absolute ass.
No it wasn’t. I literally said “in most cases” and used “a lot” twice. This is straw-man to the max. I never said they were an infallible hero, lol. If you’ve got a good argument they should have kept Ember Moon, fire ahead. I think she’s a good athlete who showed no charisma and was, frankly, boring. Or can you think of an example where the company was egregiously in the wrong to cut someone?
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Old 05-09-2022, 09:21 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
I think its really weird to say that anyone and everyone who didn't work out ALL just so happened to be shit; that nobody had any value whatsoever and that's why they're gone...

Oh, and also it doesn't matter how fucked up they may have been treated in any step of the endeavour, from hiring to firing, it is all the fault of the wrestler for being subpar. Even being way more generous than reasonably neccessary, that smashes Occam's Razor to a very blunt edge.

It also doesn't check out when there are still shitty wrestlers who were or have been employed for years.

"Ember Moon isnt' that good", but to this same company, Kelly Kelly is considered a "legend" and - even as of the last surprise appearance she made - still runs ropes like a drunken Clydesdale. The most basic of basics, and she can't do it. The Bellas are HOF material, but Athena somehow sucks because they cut her. And the office not watching their own product and not realizing she was in a tag team is somehow bad on her because reasons.
You’re trying to argue logic with an illogical poster who doesn’t bother to watch the product he supposedly hates but talks about incessantly, to the point of making things up (like claiming MJF and Cody Rhodes never touched after the former turned heel) and commenting about the IWC being mad at the Rock returning, when he in fact did not return, and Noid just bit on a post fishing for his response.
Last edited by Damian Rey 2.0; 05-10-2022 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 05-11-2022, 12:53 AM   #31
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I loved Ember in her original NXT run.

Having said that, WWE didnt fire War Goddess Ember Moon, they gave her a really stupid CCTV hacker on a motorcycle with a horrible haircut and horrible entrance music makeover first.

It is a lot easier to cut this


Then it is to cut this
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Old 05-16-2022, 12:51 AM   #32
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No, Nerf, I was referring to MY previous post. That was the point of me saying what I said. Do we really have to be courtroom specific and granular around here now? Because I'm not about to cross examine every conversation to "win" an argument about your penchant for assuming everyone on TPWW that shits on WWE has some default programming to hate WWE appropos of nothing even when folks point out exactly what the fuck that company is doing to piss them off.

Anyhow...


Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
I loved Ember in her original NXT run.

Having said that, WWE didnt fire War Goddess Ember Moon, they gave her a really stupid CCTV hacker on a motorcycle with a horrible haircut and horrible entrance music makeover first.

It is a lot easier to cut this


Then it is to cut this
But they *had* to change it... she stole Kierra Hogan's entire gimmick, remember?!
Last edited by Tom Guycott; 05-16-2022 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 05-16-2022, 05:46 AM   #33
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I really struggled with what she was supposed to be when she debuted in NXT. Was she supposed to be a werewolf?
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Old 05-16-2022, 01:02 PM   #34
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She was probably the first case where the NXT “every gets a special entrance” aesthetic really jumped the shark with me. It was too much for no reason.

She’d have been better off with a generic rock theme and going straight out to the ring to kick ass. When they make a big hubbub out of these people and you’re left consciously thinking about how you don’t care — it’s not good for them.

Karrion Kross was another.
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