Well I've never really dug the whole "So and so says good bye on Raw". Just retire already.

It only became a big deal when Flair retired and then HBK.

Lesnar needs to continue to look dominant in order to be the attraction he is. Taker getting revenge would be great to make Taker look good at Brock's expense. What good does that do Taker when he leaves for good afterward? Meanwhile it would make Brock look more "human". That needs to not happen.

I honestly don't get this whole "If Lesnar loses he looks weak" thing everyone here sees to be raving about. Lesnar as a man looks and acts the part of a beast/thug/brute as does Ryback, as did Batista and Goldberg etc Losing a match especially to one of the all time legends doesn't change that certainly not in the eyes of hardened wrestling fans and if it does, then really it shows they know nothing about character portrayal or that said individual was never really a big deal in the first place.

It appears I am the only one who appears to be giving Lesnar any credit for his work prior to the streak. Even losing to Nash albeit under dubious circumstances, Goldberg never appeared any less of a dominant character and if anything given most of his losses came dirty, his persona was preserved. You might argue Batista's character was ruined by having him submit to Daniel Bryan but that was more reflective of the fact that Batista's last run was just scripted terribly from start to finish.

Losing a match especially to the Undertaker would certainly do no harm whatsoever to Lesnar. If we are talking about him as a dominant figure then you need someone who is on his level physically etc and apart from the Undertaker we're rather limited e.g. Big Show, Kane, Mark Henry, Ryback. That's not say Cena or Reigns or Rollins can't lift him and they have done. I meant in terms of someone comparable in size etc. That's why Nash was the ideal option to end Goldberg's streak as he had already beaten the other viable faces such as DDP and Sting and beaten Giant and Nash was the only person who had the physical prowess to make the win look convincing. Nobody would have bought say Billy Kidman or Psychosis beating Goldberg.


Also from a storyline perspective it makes sense. Say Undertaker returns around February time not to announce a match but to address the WWE Universe, talks about his career and achievements and the ending of the streak and how it still eats him up inside. Maybe Lesnar confronts him with Heyman in tow and they goad him etc. Taker then challenges him to one last match at WM, Lesnar initially laughs it off as it would be same old story but then accepts it. We'd all go into it wondering if Taker will win or lose. I mean I'm sure there were many out there who thought Wyatt might get given the win at WM 31.

For those like my still crying over the streak ending, it serves some solace in that at least Undertaker can say he's beaten all of his Wrestle Mania opponents and thus has that distinction although haven't Goldberg and Mayweather beaten all their WM opponents too?

Let's be honest whilst Undertaker is and always will be a legend, his aura has been tarnished with the streak being broken. As I said at length previously, there is now nothing that makes him stand out or above the likes of Hogan, Flair, Savage, Rock, Austin, HBK, HHH, Foley and even Cena, Punk or heck even Sting. He is just another ring legend who went on unbeaten at WM for some time until they decided to let Lesnar take the streak. That to me is not befitting of someone as legendary as the Undertaker and for the years of service he has given to the WWE and wrestling, he deserves at least one distinction we can all say that will never be matched or beaten for at least some time and that's having him beat Lesnar in his final match and thus he hangs up his boots having beaten all his WM opponents.

A match with Sting serves absolutely no purpose for either man with both being past their prime and with it most likely being their final match, would want a WM win. Personally I would like to see them fight at another PPV but can either man muster the strength to give us one more match?

Furthermore what is the deal with Sting any way? I would not be surprised if Sting never returned to the ring again (in a match) or indeed, if neither man did.


So to conclude I feel Taker should fight Lesnar at WM 32 and if not then he should retire as a match against a jobber serves little purpose and it would be silly to see him get a win over say Cena or even someone like Ambrose or Rollins.


Ideal candidates for the streak for me would have been Sting, Cena, Rock in that order.

On a side note Hogan seems to be constantly ranting and raving about possibly having one more match at WM 32.

Surely this is totally unrealistic? If it did happen it would either be some weird-ass match against McMahon or J & J Security or Michael Cole, or a slow tag team match or something involving celebrities?

How can you not comprehend that had Lesnar not essentially destroyed the Undertaker and take what was his most impressive accomplishment and bury it there would absolutely no steam behind him going up against Cena?

If Lesnar loses to Taker,he has no momentum. He goes against Cena following a losing effort to an old man. It's not the same. The hype Heyman was able to build off of pinning Taker and the heat that came from it is non existent if Lesnar loses. There's nothing there to build up steam.

Feel like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Taker doesn't need a revenge win against a guy who is clearly in a different league. It'd be a absolute waste. Taker is better off calling it a day than beating Lesnar in a meaningless match that'd have zero heat.

Lesnar would still have credibility. No one's arguing that losing to Taker would suddenly make him unable to draw at all. Your options are: Have Lesnar look unstoppable and have every match he competes in have the aura of "Can _____ stop the unstoppable monster?" or... you have him lose to an old man way past his prime and have anyone who beats him or even puts up a fight just look that much less impressive for doing so.

Now honestly... which is the best option?

Then really it shows how little regard most had and still have for Lesnar. It's almost as if you're suggesting he should now continue what remains of his wrestling career going unbeaten or at least unpinned which is totally unrealistic and unlikely to happen.

Undertaker isn't just an "old man", this is the Undertaker, the phenom, the deadman, the legend, one of the all time greats and imposing both physically and psychologically. It would fit "the character" to have a storyline where he wanted to avenge his solitary defeat etc hence why a rematch with Lesnar isn't a totally ridiculous option. I don't see Lesnar being involved in the title match at WM 32 and Taker will no doubt be on the card.


If losing to an old man is such a bad thing then why on Earth did they have Wyatt job to Taker? Of all the people they could have built up off the back of the streak, Wyatt fit the bill.


Why can't people seem to understand my point: I don't think Lesnar losing to Taker or even without the streak ending, Lesnar would have still been a big deal. He's not some runty little weed like Daniel Bryan who needs to be pushed or thrown into as many main events as possible to win favour from the crowds. Lesnar will always be viewed as a Beast and if his current run of wins/unpinned is to come to an end why not have the man whose streak he ended be the one to inflict that defeat? They could have a great match and everyone goes home happy.

Lesnar most likely won't be in the title picture and could well get pinned at the next PPV, that seems unlikely but I suspect Rollins will still hold the belt by then.


Sheamus will have failed in his cash-in attempt.

That is exactly why having Undertaker get the win is the right thing to do. As I just said previously I don't picture Lesnar being in the WWE title frame as I believer Rollins and Ambrose and possibly Reigns too will battle on for this and personally I'd like to see a Rollins v Ambrose main event.....



Lesnar is unstoppable he brags and brags and brags then out comes Undertaker, Heyman and Lesnar laugh but decide to give him a match to beat on him some more. We all tune in being edge of our seats as we genuinely don't know which way this will go but we hope both would put on a good match.

That's why I say Taker should get the win, he's the "least expected". Nobody wants to see Cena beat this guy, Triple H doesn't really figure, Orton has other feuds, Sheamus nope. Daniel Bryan got injured and even if he was fit to wrestle would be too much of a liability, I don't think Jericho would want the match, Kevin Owens might be a possibility...... Rollins, Reigns, Ambrose all involved in other feuds, Wyatt v Lesnar wouldn't work.....who's left? Unless the Rock came back to take on Lesnar.

Back on topic of top stars of today/the past etc. Having just watched Cesaro/Cena from Raw, imagine that exact match at Wrestlemania! 70,000 fans would be going ape-shit over that. On the off-chance that casual/non-fans are seeing it, the crowds reaction to the match would further enhance the experience, and would help represent Cesaro as a "top guy" that casual fans could get into. Wrestlemania is where "the whole world is watching" and that would make a new big star for the WWE, without the possibility of said big name being absent the rest of the year.

I'm only for Taker beating Lesnar if its a titty honking match.

Lets stop feeding the troll guys.

Lesnar would not even be able to suplex Taker because Taker would die. He would not be able to look like his dominate self because of the crippled body of Taker. Who the hell wants to see a match with Brock not bringing SUPLEX CITY?

Is Jazzy a troll? Just figured he was a idiot.

A Troll for not sharing your stupid views on Lesnar?

You tell me:

Which Diva's titties would you love to honk?
Divas you want to see get undressed?
Do we talk tits here?
If a Diva forced you to smell her armpits, which Diva would it be (current roster only).
Masturbation policy at PPVs

I know you'd prefer we discussed penises instead of tits but calling me a troll, that's unfair.

I try to be serious but if it's troll Jazzy you won't then all I have to say to that is tits!

why not have taker face superfly at mania 32? I mean if we want to tie a bow on the whole career thing?

Put Taker in a gimmick battle Royal with HHH, Sting, and Hogan... etc

Honestly, I may be in the minority here but if they can get HBK back for one more match, I wouldn't mind seeing Taker-HBK 3. Taker decides he's gonna retire after WrestleMania and HBK comes out and says if he's going out, he wants it to be against him. I'm convinced with months to prepare, HBK could pull another great match out of him. Have HBK win and the two of them shake hands after and walk off having capped off Taker's career with an epic match against his greatest WrestleMania opponent in both men's home state.

I'd be cool with that. And I'm really pining for a gimmick battle royal from newer old guys. Ken Shamrock, Steve Blackman, the Dudleys, X Pac, NAO, etc. It'd be a fucking blast of a piss break.

I'd be all for that if they brought in a lot of gimmicks from the attitude era and a little after who haven't been around lately. Val Venis, The Hurricane, etc.

Then have Zack Ryder be part of it and make his entrance looking around like "What the fuck am I doing in this?"

Dolph Ziggler enters as NICKY!!!

No. Dolph Ziggler enters as Kerwin White's caddy.

Taker/Owens

You just know Heath Slater can't be excluded...somebody's gotta be the guy who gets eliminated before he's in the ring for 1 second!

Lesnar vs Owens is the direction I would go.

Lesnar... Ryback....

Should have happened at 29 but I'll take it now.

I have no faith in creative that they will ever make anything out of what Ryback could've been.

Neither do I. I don't even really have faith in his IC title run going well.

After SummerSlam the year prior to WM29 though when Ryback was still the beast he came in as and Lesnar had just made Triple H tap out, Ryback starting a "Feed me Brock" craze while Heyman subtly just kind of avoided it for a while building up to a match at WrestleMania between the two would have MADE Ryback. He would have become what they're having to try so hard to turn Reigns into.

Instead Triple H needed his win back and Ryback needed to put Mark Henry over...

Think its so stupid people book them selves over another person in a fake sport.

In the end it is all about money, higher up on the card you are the more money you make.

I get it in certain situations. Like if you're building toward something bigger. But in situations where there's a much better option that could likely build a new star for your company, choosing to put yourself over just to get your win back is definitely stupid.

Yeah, I wasn't watching much wrestling in 2011 but remember hearing HHH did the same thing to Punk around that time.

This. Especially for someone like HHH who hasn't really left the business for years ala Rock, Lesnar or Austin if he came back in the future or even HBK when he came back from his injury. I can see why those guys might want or feel like they need to get a win or two to reestablish themselves a little.

Someone like HHH or even Taker or recently, Jericho, don't need it. They're around often and long enough in recent history that no one cares if they lose to a current main eventer/up-comer and don't need to "get their win back."

Pretty sure Shawn's considered "officially" retired.

Nope.

40(-45) minute classic between Taker and Kane, dammit!!

Just leave Taker off the card. His matches are barely watchable now.

The Brock match was bad, but he was concussed and injured early. The Wyatt match wasn't bad, but it failed to live up to the expectations of the past decade of Undertaker matches.

His past 3 matches have not been Mania worthy matches.

Something seemed way off with that last match.

Well damn. "Officially retired" in wrestling is quite official so I guess that's that.

Calling it now, Shawn at WM32. Keep talking about him being retired and it will happen.

The thing that put the idea of the Taker match in my head was the rumors that WWE is trying to get him for WM32. If he's gonna have one more match, there would never be a better situation than facing Taker in his retirement match at WrestleMania in front of a crowd of 100,000 in Texas.

He could still carry Taker to a decent match, I'm sure. Unless Taker is just that far gone now. Which he probably is.

I know this sounds dumb probably, and it would piss off everyone ever, but they should do Sting v Taker and have Shawn come out for no reason and attack Sting. Originally I was thinking a DQ finish, but maybe have it happen right after the finish. Build to a Sting v Shawn retirement match. I want to see Shawn one more time, and him and Sting could probably have a decent match.

lol again?

Didn't HBK once save Sting?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fALflqEoMYc

Then the whole thing just got fucking weird with the whole Jesus business. Even for a titty honking, foot fetishist, Paige's ass kissing and armpit sniffing freakazoid like me, that was just fucking weird.

He had a valid reason for WM30 since his brain was scrambled, and the CM Punk match at WM29 was great. WM31 match was alright. The bar got set so high from WM21 vs Orton, WM23 vs Batista, WM24 vs Edge, and especially the WM25-26 vs HBK twice and WM27-28 vs HHH twice run that nothing really can live up to the expectations of a veteran fan's idea of an Undertaker WrestleMania match. The idea and the aura of the streak really didn't mean anything until WM21 vs Orton anyway. Bray vs Taker was better than any match Undertaker had before WM14.

The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels would actually be an awesome WrestleMania 32 match. HBK could come out of retirement with an old gunslinger's attitude -- you put me out, now I put you out, old man.

Don't get me wrong, I know he could show up at any time for a one-off WM match. That's why I put officially in quotes. It could just be a kayfabe retirement, but I'm fairly certain it's not. Time will tell.

I would like to see the Undertaker go one on one with...





























































Anybody THRILLA~!

Yeah but HBK screwed sting at mania.

I dunno. If HBK's coming out of retirement I'd like it to be something fresh, rather than the 3rd instalment of Taker-HBK.

Would love to see Kevin Owens vs. HBK to be honest.

My ideal WrestleMania card that I can think of right now...

WWE World Heavyweight Title Match
Brock Lesnar(c) vs Ryback

Mixed Tag Match
Triple H and Stephanie McMahon vs The Rock and Ronda Rousey

Retirement Match
The Undertaker vs John Cena

Triple Threat Match
Roman Reigns vs Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose

WWE United States Title Match
Kevin Owens(c) vs Randy Orton

Bray Wyatt vs Finn Balor

WWE Intercontinental Title Match
The Miz(c) vs Fandango

The Bella Twins vs Trish Stratus and Lita

WWE World Tag Team Title Match (Guest Enforcer: Hulk Hogan)
The Usos(c) vs Sheamus and Rusev

Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal

Tag title match may seem a little odd but when trying to come up with a card, I came up with a situation where The Usos come back and regain the tag titles and also throw their support behind their family in The Rock and Roman Reigns, both of whom are feuding with The Authority. This pisses of Triple H and he enlists his super team of Sheamus and Rusev to take the titles off of them. Then through an argument with Vince or something, Hogan gets put in as an enforcer. Allows him to be part of the show and maybe even get involved physically a little without having to have a match. Feel like all of this would bring the tag titles prestige way up along with The Usos' stock.

Not bad, fan. Not bad.

What kind of a fucking show is that?

I think The Usos will get a moment where they win the Tag Team Championship at WrestleMania next year, but I'm not sure what heel team they will beat. To be honest, I could see it being Luke Harper & Erick Rowan, since those matches were so good. It wouldn't surprise me to see The Lucha Dragons and The New Day added to that as well though.

Multi-team tag title pre-show matches at WrestleMania seem to be tradition now. So that's the most likely scenario. It would just be cool if they could build a tag title match to an upper card level where it HAS to be on the main show.

I agree. At WrestleMania XXX I thought "The Usos win on Kickoff here, then next year it's on the main show." Then it was the Fatal 4-Way on the pre-show again. I do think we'll see them on the main show next year though. They'll just need heel opponents that are worthy of their own spot.

I'm seriously stuck on the World Title match. I can book like six epic matches that I can reasonably see happening given current deals and such (and no one coming back from the dead or permanent injury), but I just cannot find an obviously HUGE World Title match.

John Cena defending the World Title against someone seems like the best bet right now. Or chasing his sixteenth title at WrestleMania. But given that he's likely to be booed, I think casting him as the defending champion is the best bet.

I had this thought at the start of the year, but then let it go, but now it is creeping back: How about Finn Balor? I know it would be his first WrestleMania and it might seem surreal to put him in such a spot, but the guy has been astonishing in NXT so far. His entrance at WrestleMania alone would make it feel like a big fight. Balor himself has said that his dream Mania opponent is Cena, and it'd be a "franchise passing" moment that might actually not get shit on (like Reigns might).

Even if the reign of Balor is short-lived, it could still be a fairly epic moment. And it's not like the WWE are about to cut their losses with Balor. Might as well give him a shot.

God knows......actually that was the point. But yeah it was so fucking weird.

They could probably go somewhat old-school and do a Fatal-4-Way, 4 Corners tag or a tag elimination gauntlet.

The Usos v. The New Day vs. The Ascension vs. Prime Time Players (c)

Dunno.

The Ascension and The Primetime Players just aren't Mania tag match material yet, in my opinion. Let them appear in the Battle Royal, but let the best teams fight over the Tag Titles.

The Usos are pretty much the only Mania tag match material though, so there has to be some leeway.

Usos vs Lucha Dragons

or

Harper/Rowan vs The Dudley Boyz

Either match will work fine for me.

Hmm, true, although I'm sure more teams will pop up. I'd argue that Harper & Rowan are credible enough to be considered for the spot. And The New Day are pretty much guaranteed to be on the main shows these days.

Oh yeah, Harper/Rowan could definitely be Mania match material.... They have had some "classic"/"good" matches with The Usos already....

Yeah, I'm thinking they could get a Mania opener spot or something.

<font color=goldenrod>Hopefully Harper and Rowan stay as a team once Rowan recovers from his injury over the next few months. I imagine Harper will flounder as a solo act in the midcard until then (he shouldn't flounder, but I don't trust WWE to do much of substance with him).</font>

Harper could very easily be Seth Rollins's next insurance policy.

God is an awful booker. Makes me think wrestling heaven is not the awesome promotion we all assume it is.

Wish we knew of any vague SSlam '15 plans...

Watching RAW makes me think that Seth Rollins vs. Triple H or Seth Rollins vs. Kane is a go. OK.

Several people here having a pop at me for suggesting an Undertaker v Lesnar rematch for WM32 yet according to the news stories, WWE is seriously considering this as a possibility.

Doesn't look so stupid now does it?

still looks stupid

Really sick of these yearly "Undertaker's Wrestlemania opponent" reports. Mad respect to the Undertaker, but it's fucking over. Move on and let other people shine. I have no interest in seeing Undertaker vs Lesnar again, and there's nobody on the roster at "that level" that looks like a viable threat to the non-streak anyway.

I also have no interest in Rollin's vs. Triple H. Same thing as 'Taker. Triple H hasn't been a full-time active roster member for about four years now, yet always seems to find himself in storylines where he's called to in-ring action at Wrestlemania. Same shit every year.

Biker Taker is undefeated at Rasslemania. Just sayin'.

So is Surfer Sting.

Incredibly stupid.

Well WWE need to stimulate interest and the best way to do it is send out rumours.

People say it sounds stupid but reading the reports and alleged thoughts of WWE creative it appears there are similarities in my line of thought; Undertaker never actually addressed his loss to Brock Lesnar and both he and Heyman have been ridiculing him at times since WM 30 culminating no with turning attention to Kane.


If Undertaker is really only one more match away from retirement then send him out with a bang and either avenge that defeat to Lesnar or lose again.

Don't throw someone "new" or a rising star into the mix again. Wyatt has nosedived in importance since that loss and in fact was already nosediving since the Cena loss at WM 30. Wyatt's only "significant" moment in recent times was when he eliminated Bryan from the RR.


I also suggested Undertaker v Sting at a PPV other than WM as I suspect neither men would want a loss at WM 32. Summer Slam would be great but I think the Survivor Series would be better, build it up for months etc.

Also Survivor Series is where both stars made their debuts so would hold that significance as it were.


Undertaker v Brock Lesnar WM 32 seems to be the way.

so this is why the product is quite bad... hmmm...

Would probably be much better if I had full creative control.

If they ever want to do Taker vs. Sting, do it on its own Network special and base it entirely around their careers or something. No need to clog-up WrestleMania with that booking nightmare. If Taker vs. Lesnar Modern II is going to happen, then SummerSlam is probably the best bet.

Just doesn't make sense to build up Lesnar for two years just to lose to Taker.

The only logic I can come up with is if Lesnar was champ coming into Mania, and you had Taker challenge him, people would think Taker would win and retire, but you just have Lesnar destroy him. However, with Lesnar as a face now, that booking doesn't work.

Depending where they go with Owens, I could see him as a logical opponent for Taker, but again, I feel like he should go over. Owens should be being built up to headline.

Cena could lose to Taker and not get hurt by it. Sting would make some sense. I hate the idea of Kane, because it would be God awful. Rollins could be alright.

Simple solution: Have 'Taker show up at Battleground, he tombstones Lesnar, pulls Rollins over him, gets the ref to come to in time to make the 3 count. The next night on RAW, 'Taker solidifies his heel turn with a badass promo saying that he didn't care when Noble and Mercury were taken out by Brock, but when he attacked and injured his brother, Kane he got pissed and asked Steph and Triple H to allow him to join on with The Authority as a replacement bodyguard and protector of Rollins. They agreed, and so now, almost 1 1/2 years later he's back, not just to protect the champ, but to rip him apart and end his career not just for what happened in WM XXX, but also for daring to assault Kane.

Why would Taker want to protect Seth when Seth attacked Kane as well?

Realization that Seth only attacked him in the heat of the moment, and besides they made up anyway.

Here's what I'd do even though this has zero chance of happening:


Main-event: Cesaro vs. Lesnar


Taker's last match: Undertaker vs. John Cena


Tag match: Triple H/Stephanie vs. The Rock/Ronda


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like this idea a lot.


You know what I think would be cool actually? If at some point in the future, Rollins brought on Harper, and then eventually brought in Rowan as well. Harper and Rowan would be Rollins' new henchmen. Get rid of JJ Security, and everyone else.


Somewhere down the road, you have Ambrose, Reigns, and a newly created face in Bray Wyatt going up against Rollins, Harper, and Rowan.

Have the Ut interfere by taking out Rollins after a pedigree on Lesnar costing Lesnar the match leaving a pissed off Lesnar in the ring. Monday rolls around and Heyman is out alone talking about how the Taker broke the 11th commandment and how that wasn't too bright considering the beating he took the last time. HAve the Taker appear on the tron talkign about how it wasn't person just taking care of family business and he ain't done yet. After that have Lesnar jumping through hoops to get a rematch while also chasing after the Understaker leading to a triple threat at SumerSlam. After that I get a little lost..

WM32
Cena/Reigns for US title
Owens/Lesnar for WWE World Heavyweight Title
Rollins/Taker
Cesaro/Ambrose WWE Intercontinental Title
HHH/Sting II - Maybe have Taker cost Sting the match out of frustration over losing to Rollins in a close one due to something or other
Barrett/RTruth Sceptre on a pole match with winner becoming the "undisputed" king of the WWE
Stephanie and the Bellas/Ronda Rousey, Charlotte and Paige
Finn Balor/Joe for the NXT title

Holy shit, The CyNick appeared...

I like the idea of Bray Wyatt turning face to try and reclaim his family.

The only guys that should beat Lesnar cleanly at this point are


1) Ryback - really not ideal for me, but the way the WWE are pushing him, he might be the best guy to do this at Wrestlemania next year (and it truly saddens me to say that).


2) Cesaro - if built up properly......but I don't think this will happen any time soon. I still have hopes for somewhere down the road, but who knows.


3) Seth Rollins - this would be my #1 choice. A heel Seth Rollins cleanly and convincingly going over Lesnar at Wrestlemania. While Rollins would have to deviate from being a chicken shit heel to an 'honorable heel' (if you want to call it that) at Wrestlemania, this might be the best way to go.


I wouldn't mind seeing Ambrose turning into that guy, but the WWE don't see him in that light.

The guy who beats Lesnar should be "face of the company" material. Neither Cesaro or Rollins is that guy.

As much as I love Ryback, I'm not sure they can successfully salvage him and realistically get him back to that level he was at when he was first getting hot.

Whoever it is, they need to start methodically booking them on an upward climb now and have it happen at WrestleMania.

Yeah sad thing is, is nobody is ready.

I think Cena and Orton need to get injured at the same time for 2-3 months and force the issue. The have the talent, they do not have the faith or competent bookers ....

So if it's not Cesaro, Rollins, or Ryback, then who is that guy?


The WWE wanted it to be Reigns, but he was too green.


Daniel Bryan's career is in serious jeopardy and so he's likely out.


WWE's best bet might be to re-push Randy Orton for the umpteenth time.....as erroneous as that may be. The WWE can play it off as 'after all these years', Orton is finally starting to realize the potential that Triple H initially saw in him.

Thing about Orton is I don't think HHH will ever have him look better than he is.

It's a shame as well. The WWE had two golden opportunities to really make something out of Orton and failed both times:


1) Orton's premature face turn after Summerslam 2004. WWE should have pushed Orton as a 'cool heel' as they did with The Rock in 98/99 (i.e. a heel that gets massively cheered by the fans). Evolution should have kicked HHH out of the group, and Orton should have been the new leader..........with Batista going over heel Orton at Wrestlemania 21.


2) That one Wrestlemania where Orton fought Hunter - no way Hunter should have gone over. Orton, with Legacy, should have easily beaten The Game. The week before Wrestlemania, Orton should have been able to kick Stephanie in the head to add to his massive heeldom. Legacy was way the fuck over during this time period and it got squashed.